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Tumbledown Dick 'should not be listed building'

By Amy Taylor
December 28, 2012

HOPES have been dashed for campaigners aiming to stop an old pub in Farnborough from becoming a McDonalds after an inspection ruled it should not become a listed building.

A report by an independent historic buildings expert, commissioned by Rushmoor Borough Council, ruled that the Tumbledown Dick pub does not meet the criteria needed to become a listed building. This would have protected it from ‘out of character’ development such as the takeover by the fast food chain.

A campaign group of more than 1,700 people was set up to save the pub, affectionately known as the Tumbly, just days before news of the agreement between McDonalds and the current landowners, Bride Hall Investments, came to light.

Supporters hoped that the listed building review would create the barrier necessary to block the move. But the report into the pub’s heritage concluded that architectural interest was ‘absent’ and that any connections with ‘notable persons’ were ‘unsubstantiated’.

It called the building a ‘wholly typical mid-19th century public house’ which did not possess ‘sufficient architectural or historic interest’ for listing purposes.

Fran Beauchamp, of the Friends of the Tumbledown Dick committee, said the report’s verdict was ‘nonsense’ and that she has doubts about its accuracy.

“When I saw the report I was angry and upset – it is quite a blow for us,” she added.

“It says the building is worthless and ready to be demolished, which would be very worrying for us.

“They are saying it is not a heritage building, which is absolutely not the case. We have evidence in diaries and on maps. We are now in the process of requesting our own assessment to be carried out."

She said Andrew Lloyd, chief executive of the council, had said he would help the group negotiate access to the pub with the owners in order to do conduct inspections.

For more on this story, see this week's News & Mail, out now.

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The proposals are very interesting and, because of the location, worth considering. A music, entertainment, etc venue at the Tumbly would not cause any aggravation to nearby residents - as there aren't any! However, in the current financial situation, it would have to cover its costs.

County Councillor John Wall - Farnborough South Division (@CllrJohnWall), Farnborough, Hampshire
08/01/2013 at 23:13

I reckon the Police station site would be much better for a drive thru McDonalds anyway, and probably cheaper. Although I'm opposed to the Frigrove parade issue, the existing tenants could be potentially relocated to other vacant sites in the town centre so this is not so much of a problem. As for funding an arts centre, there must be examples of lottery funding and commercial sponsorship that could deliver this, once set up I'm sure it could break even as a multi use site.

SpongeBob NoPants, Farnborough
07/01/2013 at 13:06

The plans sounds great, and promising - but where is the investment? and how much might it all cost?

Pigfarmer, Farnborough
07/01/2013 at 10:24

With regards to other questions about Firgrove Parade, be advised that both the Tumbledown site AND Firgrove Parade are owned by Bride Hall property developers based in Mayfair. Bride Hall are selling off both plots to McDonald's and Whitbread respectively. They intend to increase the boundaries of the Tumbly site to make way for a large drive-thru on that site (demolishing the Tumbledown in the process) and they also intend to demolish ALL the shops on Firgrove parade to make way for a large Beefeater restaurant and huge multi-storey Premier Inn Hotel, despite their being no requirement for further hotel space in the town with occupancy levels being very low in the nearby Travelodge hotel. Apart from the Airshow every 2 years, what benefit this will bring to Farnborough and local people is very questionable. A few new jobs may be created but whether this will make up for the loss of jobs in all the surrounding independent retailers who will be lost as a consequence, is debatable. Moreover, what will it do Farnborough's syline? Yet more highrise buildings with nobody in them.

Franb, Farnborough
07/01/2013 at 09:32

To clarify, Friends of the Tumbledown have formed a Community Interest Group and we have submitted a full proposal to Andrew Lloyd at RBC. We wish to enact our rights under The Localism Act which became law only recently, enabling local community groups to be granted the 'right to bid' to save treasured buildings. We have applied to the council to nominate the Tumbledown as a 'Community Asset' under the law and we are awaiting their response. We have also published our own Heritage Report which completely discredits the report commissioned by the Council written by Turley Associates. Our report has been fully and thoroughly researched and we can prove that the building has huge and significant historic value - you can read our report here: http://friendsofthetumbledowndick.org.uk/ This report has also been sent to English Heritage in support of our application to formally list the building.

We then intend to oppose any planning submitted by McDonald's and enact our right to bid on the building as our community group and we will be given 6 months leeway to fundraise to buy and restore the building and return it to the community as a heritage buiding, working pub, live music venue and community arts centre. We have a great number of fabulous ideas for the building to benefit all the residents of Farnborough and we will happily listen to all ideas presented from local people about how best to utilise the various spaces within the building. We also wish to have a daytime cafe, craft markets and support dance, choral and musical endeavours. We also wish to install a recording and rehearsal facility and provide training services for young local musicians. We really think this building can not only be saved, but put to fantastic community use for local people. We want to give local bands a stage to learn their craft and provide critical evening entertainment for the town by staging tribute bands, cover bands and other exciting events.

Franb, Farnborough
07/01/2013 at 09:22

I think my previous comment may have led people to conclude I support Macd's, far from it I am just supporting the fact that something will be done at the site.

If the campaign wins and the golden arches move onto the next space, what next for the tumble? there has been no mention of future plans, or if there has been there has been no back up information to advise where the investment will come from. I would love the place to be refurbished and restored as a music venue and pub etc, but it is going to cost a lot of money to do that. the fact that this report has said it is ready for demolition means that any building contractor would need heavy persuasion and financial backing to keep it as a music venue.

I'm just being realistic. until someone can come up with actual plans and costs the bulldozers will be the cheapest option.

Pigfarmer, Farnborough
04/01/2013 at 09:48

Hampshire County Council consider it a 'Hampshire Treasure'.

http://www.hants.gov.uk/hampshiretreasures/entries/v03p220e02.html

And yes, UKR, I agree with you re: the camera shop on Firgrove. The guy in there knows his stuff (better than the usual camera shop chain).

And I also feel for the other businesses that could be pushed out.

Dan B
03/01/2013 at 15:20

I see the Friends Of The Tumble Down have now released their own report on the pub. Hopefully the mods will let me post the link:

http://friendsofthetumbledowndick.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Heritage-TDD-01.01.2013-FTTD.pdf

More concise than the Council's 'independent' report and actually a good history lesson its own right. For those whose cultural horizons only stretch as far as a pair of golden arches I suggest spending a few minutes learning some more about your local area.

FrimleyRoadRob, Camberley
03/01/2013 at 11:20

There is another more up to date official website: wew.friendsofthetumbledowndick.org.uk. That has most of the latest info, but think the artists impressions of the development of Firgrove are on the facebook link.

Louise Punchard
31/12/2012 at 16:53

So the steamroller of big business and local authority will chug on regardless of the wishes of local people. Not only will they allow yet another take-away but a multinational that will threaten the trade of small local take-aways opposite. Not only goodby to a local inn that should be refurbished and brought back in to use but we also see the demise of other small businesses with the demolition of the Firgrove Parade. To do what? build a Pub belonging to a national chain, Guess my next point? There is a pub just around the corner 2 mins walk they want to turn into a take-away, now there is either a demand for a pub in the area or there is not, if there is a demand reopen the Tumbldown if there is not a demand do not build a new plastic pub. The demise of the Firgrove Parade will also see the going of an indipendent photographic shop where people can go to get first class advice on camara's and other photographic requirments unlike the national chains where staff only know the brand name and the price.

UKR
31/12/2012 at 15:21

AC2009: You can still access the Save the Tumbledown campaign's Facebook page, even if you don't have a Facebook account. https://www.facebook.com/SaveTheTumbledownDick

Alternatively, you can visit their website on http://savethetumbledowndick.org.uk/

BlisteringBarnacles! , Sheffield / Farnborough
31/12/2012 at 15:11

Sorry if I'm being a bit slow here, but which web site are the plans available on? I don't do Facebook, so I can't look on there.

AC2009
31/12/2012 at 11:43

Firgrove parade is lined up for demolision. Copies of the architects plans are available on the website and facebook page to save the Tumbledown. And yes, more small local businesses will be lost if this goes ahead.

Louise Punchard
31/12/2012 at 10:57

Dan - based on past developments in the borough you are probably correct that RBC have already decided the future of the Tumbly site and are now steering the whole business in their chosen direction. You can also be fairly sure that what's best for the people of Farnborough will not have been taken into account.

You also mention that the proposed/agreed development will include demolishing Fairgrove Parade. Is this definitely true? If so, this is really serious as it would mean closing some thriving businesses. It also means we would lose one of the best restaurants in the area (Zafron) and would get a McDonalds instead. I can't see that as progress.

AC2009
31/12/2012 at 08:37

I am not sure how on earth anybody can associate the words 'progress' and 'develop' with building yet another fast food restaurant in the town centre. Also, I do not see any reference on here to the demolition of Firgrove Parade as part of this redevelopment - more independent businesses that will be muscled out of the town centre or probably finished off for good. Where's the progress in that? The tone of the report commissioned by RBC suggests they have already decided whats best for (some) of the people of Farnborough.