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Part of the proposed trial area
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Last chance for views on 20mph Farnborough pilot

By Amy Taylor
January 08, 2013

A CONSULTATION on a pilot scheme to lower speed limits in North Camp, Farnborough, to 20mph ends this week.

North Camp is one of 10 areas where the scheme is being considered subject to residents’ feedback.

Hampshire County Council has put forward the project to trial 20mph speeds in residential areas, with 10,000 people being consulted.

Deputy leader Mel Kendal said: “If these schemes are to be successful and have the potential for being introduced in other areas, it is essential for us to establish that we have the support for implementing 20mph speed restrictions.

“We are therefore sending residents who live where the 20mph limits are proposed a questionnaire, and we would encourage as many of those residents as possible to find a few moments to complete and return it to us so we can get a clear picture of their views.”

In Farnborough, the scheme would include 13 roads in a grid between Reading Road, Alexandra Road, Park Road and Lynchford Road.

Speed signs would be placed at the Reading Road end of Somerset, York and Peabody Roads, as well as at the Alexandra Road end of Queens Road. They would also be in place in Lynchford Road at the entrance to St Alban’s Round-about, the end of Peabody and Morris Road and at the Park Road end of Closeworth Road and Queens Road.

County councillor for Farnborough South, John Wall, said: “The consultation, in the form of a questionnaire, is asking whether residents think speeding is a problem or if they are interested in supporting a community speedwatch. The fundamental thing that is going to make it work or not is if people take ownership of it.”

He said complaints about speeding came from constituents across Farnborough, even in roads where ‘you wouldn’t expect speeding to be an issue’.

“A certain amount of it is a perception,” he added. “But there are roads where the average speed is in the upper-20s, which of course means there are people doing more than 30.

“If you lower the overall speed, you lower the average.”

It was more an issue of quality of life rather than one of potential accidents, he said, and has been proven to work in previous Hampshire schemes such as the Village 30 programme, which successfully lowered speeds in rural areas.

Consultation will run until the end of this week. Questionnaires are available online at http://survey.hants.gov.uk/20mph.htm.

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Most recent user comments 24 of 24

True, it is at least good to see local representatives engaging, so I'd hate for anyone to discourage it!

dave2009
11/01/2013 at 10:34

I'd love somebody to move from Woking to Farnborough!

County Councillor John Wall - Farnborough South Division (@CllrJohnWall), Farnborough, Hampshire
11/01/2013 at 09:23

I think it's great that County Councillor John Wall is commenting on here and twitter. Irrespective of your party support, we should encourage this kind of dialogue. In the past, when have you been able to talk to a councillor except in May! Keep up the good work.

twitter @dombat, Woking
11/01/2013 at 08:54

Try contacting your local Borough and/or County Councillor and get them on the case.

County Councillor John Wall - Farnborough South Division (@CllrJohnWall), Farnborough, Hampshire
10/01/2013 at 23:09

County Councillor John Wall

Well as it happens with regards to the blocked access to the estate, we did contact Hampshire Highways who had someone come out and take a look, they said they sub-contracted the road marking to RBC who they would pass it on to; 6 months later still no word from RBC and no follow up from Hampshire Highways. They also talked about putting up a warning concealed entrances sign on one of the street lamps when they were replaces. Well guess what the street lamps have been replaced but no sign of a sign.

As I’ve already pointed out the police do nothing when reporting vehicles obstructing the entrance to the estate, we’ve already been on to Hampshire council highways department who passed the buck to RBC who didn’t even bother to reply, so I have very little faith in “the system”.

I won’t go in to the 5 years it took to get Waverley BC and Surrey CC to drop the kerb on the pavement where my late mother lived so she could access the pavement safely with a wheeled walker (she was in a wheelchair by the time they eventually did after we wrote to her local MP).

Dawi, Aldershot
10/01/2013 at 20:00

I'm not making anything a political slanging match, dull or otherwise! For a long time I've heard "Why doesn't The Council do this, that, or the other?" There never was really the resources - and definitely not now! Remember JFK's "Ask not what your country can do for you?"

As I've repeatedly pointed out there are not, and never were, the resources to adequately enforce speed limits and it's good to have some acknowledgement "action to change driver attitudes". Only today there's a story on this site to the effect that drink driving arrests in Hampshire over Christmas were 15% lower than the previous year - it is possible!

As regards the Nanny state we're not "introduc[ing] 20mph speed zones", we're ASKING residents if they'd like a 20mph zone and are they prepared to take ownership of it - there's a big difference!

With respect to issues in Aldershot I'd suggest that the appropriate Councillors (Borough/County) be contacted. Rushmoor Borough Council can enforce any yellow line, etc restrictions. Try emailing parking@rushmoor.gov.uk and asking for some enforcement in particular areas. If there are times that are especially bad make that clear. New yellow lines need consideration and can take a little while. Rushmoor does a lot of the local Traffic Management work on behalf of the County Council and have a monitoring programme to see if restrictions are needed in particular areas. Email traffic.management@rushmoor.gov.uk and ask for the locations in question to be added to the monitoring programme. Again, if there are particular bad times make sure they're identified. I recently received complaints about parking obstructing traffic flow at a junction in my Division. There's no money to do anything in that area at the moment so I've had it added to the monitoring programme and if extra restrictions are justified I'll get some money allocated in the 2014-15 budget.

County Councillor John Wall - Farnborough South Division (@CllrJohnWall), Farnborough, Hampshire
10/01/2013 at 17:35

County Councillor John Wall ‘nobody is "Nannying" anybody.’

In which case why introduce 20mph speed zones.

Enforcement of existing regulations is what is needed, because without effective enforcement it is just a waste of tax payer’s money.

I live in Aldershot, and here are some examples of problems that I see (in fact why don’t you come and have a look one evening). Queens Road from the top of the hill to the Junction with Sandford Road. The road is effectively a single lane due to on street parking, there are double yellow lines both sides of the road outside the Co-Op shop which are nearly always covered with cars parked using the shop (including a Hampshire Highways car the other night). No parking enforcement that time of day, so people will just park there because they know that no action will be taken.

As for “Community Speed Watch”, if my experience of reporting problems is anything to go by it will be a joke. I live on a small private estate and we have problems from time to time with people parking ACROSS the entrance to the estate. The police won’t do anything about the offending vehicles. We contacted Hampshire Council last year after an accident when a vehicle was written off when trying to pull out (as the entrance to the estate is concealed from one direction) to try and get some warning marking put down, no action taken.

Dawi, Aldershot
10/01/2013 at 11:18

This is a hugely complicated issue. However, I can't help feeling that 20mph will just create more law breakers. Most motorists observe limits if they see them as reasonable; bad motorists will take no notice whatever you do; ALL motorists speed occasionally perhaps because their attention is on what's ahead rather than watching the speedometer and they end up doing 34 in a 30 limit.

Will a 20mph limit improve the resident's lives. I doubt it. Its the 'bad attitude' speeders that cause the problem. They iignore 30 limits now and will also ignore new 20mph limits.

In some places a 20mph limit is reasonable; but not as some suggest across every town or wherever there is a school. On residatial roads where parking takes the road down to a single lane 20mph is enough. Where there is a school, put in roadside pedestrian barriers and crossibgs rather than a limit. Free movement of traffic is important to the local economy and also the environment as crawling traffic hold-ups create lots of pollution.

Driving around some local roads there is so much traffic calming - traffic islands and signage - that in places they actually create hazzards and must represent a huge risk to motorcyclists who, more often than not, injured and killed by what they hit after comming off their bike.

What is neded is not more limits but action to change driver attitudes and improve skills.

pjt
10/01/2013 at 09:04

Its a shame Cllr Wall, as you had my attention until you turned it into a dull political slanging match. 'Nanny state' indeed. Concentrate on the things at hand, not point scoring.

dave2009
10/01/2013 at 08:55

In answer to the preceeding comment, nobody is "Nannying" anybody.

At present there is a consultation underway - that's an extremely radical concept to some, but it's really very simple. We ask local residents whether they'd like 20mph limits and if they're prepared to "buy into" the scheme and take "ownership". If a majority say "yes" then the trial will go ahead and at the end there will be a further consultation with local residents as to whether they think it was worthwhile and should be made permanent.

There are ten trials proposed throughout Hampshire and the total budget for these is about £250k which is not much in terms of a total annual budget of £1.7-8bn. It's a testament to successful cost cutting that this can be contemplated.

Enforcement of anything is always an issue which is why support for Community Speed Watch is being sought.

It's all actually been thought out very well.

County Councillor John Wall - Farnborough South Division (@CllrJohnWall), Farnborough, Hampshire
10/01/2013 at 00:08

County Councillor John Wall “The Nanny State finished in May 2010”

If that is correct, then WHY is the State trying to Nanny the people even more

As this is a time of Austerity and spending cuts, WHERE is all the money going to come from to buy and put up all those 20mph speed limit signs, or to police them, otherwise why waste the money buying and putting all those signs up in the first place?

You have to remember that any regulation is only effective if it is enforced.

Perhaps a little more thought should have gone in to this.

Dawi, Aldershot
09/01/2013 at 22:25

A couple of issues have been raised in the preceeding comment.

There will never be the resources to adequately enforce the restrictions which is why there needs to be changes to what society considers acceptable - like seat belts and drink driving.

I am not a massive fan of the speed trap on the Farnborough Road and believe that it does divert some traffic. However, it's not responsible for all of those speeding in residential areas.

County Councillor John Wall - Farnborough South Division (@CllrJohnWall), Farnborough, Hampshire
09/01/2013 at 21:14

20mph zones are not necessary. Enforcing the 30mph limit in these areas would increase road safety dramatically. The problem is not people driving 20-30mph, it's the people driving at 35-40 in these areas that need to be addressed (as even our county councilor has alluded to in his previous post).

Having a 30mph limit and frequent speed checks on the Farnborough Road only encourages drivers to cut through the back roads, so maybe the police should focus more on enforcing speed limits in residential areas, where their efforts would actually improve road safety (but raise less revenue and contribute less to quotas).

AC2009
09/01/2013 at 10:36

Even if the financial situation were healthier there wouldn't be the resources to adequately enforce speed limits. The Nanny State finished in May 2010 and we have to, collectively, accept that the state (whether it be National, Local Government or the Police) can't wave a magic wand and sort out all of our problems. It's not that long ago that few used seat belts and drinking and driving was widespread. As a society it is now generally accepted that seat belts should be worn and that drinking and driving is unacceptable. The (silent) majority have to decide that doing 35, 40, or more mph in residential areas is similarly unacceptable. We could call it the Big Society !

County Councillor John Wall - Farnborough South Division (@CllrJohnWall), Farnborough, Hampshire
08/01/2013 at 20:19

Although this is being proposed with good intentions most people will not drive slower and asking local communities to police it themselves is rediculous. What we need is more local policing to sort out local traffic problems and more calming measures where necessary. North Camp is full of drivers do what they like regardless. Even the traffic wardens are as rare as hens teeth.

Ian Penfold
08/01/2013 at 19:17

I was originally told that the consultation finished on 31 December but, when the letters went out, the closing date was 4 January. The website covers all ten trials. I hope that a few stragglers will be accommodated.

County Councillor John Wall - Farnborough South Division (@CllrJohnWall), Farnborough, Hampshire
08/01/2013 at 17:00

Thanks everyone for your comments. The paper was told the consultation would run until w/c January 7 and the website is still live.

Editor, Guildford
08/01/2013 at 16:39

I'm very supportive of on street parking as it's good for residents in older properties with no garages, etc and it also provides free traffic calming.

County Councillor John Wall - Farnborough South Division (@CllrJohnWall), Farnborough, Hampshire
08/01/2013 at 16:00

Seems like a good idea. A lot of the roads mentioned have on street parking which narrows the carriageway as well as introducing additional hazards for through traffic. Safer all round.

R Cook
08/01/2013 at 15:38

If the trial (and the others elsewhere in Hampshire) is successful I will certainly support its extension - subject to consultation with the residents - to other areas.

I agree about the issues around enforcement. My view is that local residents have to take "ownership". Talking to the Police, etc I understand that when they do speed limit enforcement in residential areas most of those exceeding the limit are local residents!

County Councillor John Wall - Farnborough South Division, Farnborough, Hampshire
08/01/2013 at 15:21

The problem is getting people to stick to it! Quite often you go through these schemes, then get some idiot come up behind you, overtaking and driving pretty dangerously as a result.

Support the idea, but the enforcement is always an issue.

dave2009
08/01/2013 at 15:13

I Wish this scheeme extended Borough Wide Certainly needed on the Racetrack called Empress estate , Hawley Este Prospect AVE PLease do it

Tony

Tony stevenson, Farnborough
08/01/2013 at 14:49

Consultation actually finished on 4 January AFAIK. Will tweet results when available. John Wall (@CllrJohnWall) - County Councillor, Farnborough South