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Artist's impressions of what the pub will look like as McDonald's
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'Mass protest' planned against Tumbledown plans

By Tim Harris
March 08, 2013

SUPPORTERS of the campaign to save a historic Farnborough pub will take part in a mass demonstration this weekend in the town.

The group pushing to save the Tumbledown Dick has organised a rally, which will take place in Farnborough Road where the pub is based, to protest against a plan by burger giant McDonald’s to move into the pub.

The fast food chain last month revealed that a planning application for the proposed restaurant on the Tumbledown site will be submitted in April.

A campaign has been running since October to save the empty Tumbledown Dick pub and committee group the Friends of the Tumbledown Dick, which formed off the back of this, has engineered the rally.

On Saturday the protesters, armed with banners, will gather at the pub at 1pm before walking up Farnborough Road.

The rally will finish at the site of the nearby McDonald’s restaurant at Farnborough Gate.

Fran Beauchamp, from the Friends group, described how there will be chanting, singing and guitar playing as part of the rally.

“We have got a huge and very real support,” she said.

“We would like the rally to show the strength of public support.

“It is our intention to make our point and bring our point to McDonald’s doorstep.

“We want McDonald’s to know how passionate we feel about it. We hope McDonald’s will listen to us.”

Ms Beauchamp said members of the public have been very vocal on the campaign’s page on social media website Facebook, which now has more than 2,700 supporters.

She added that the campaign now need to those people ‘come out and show their support’.

The Friends group has spoken with Hampshire Police about safety for the rally.

The landmark Tumbledown Dick, which is believed to have been around since the 1600s, has previously hosted bands like Reuben, Hundred Reasons and The Jam.

The Tumbledown Dick has been empty since 2008 when it failed a health inspection.

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If the Tumbledown D**k was so popular it would have been bought out and would still be trading. It closed because it wasnt profitable an no one went there end off story. At least McDonalds will provide jobs and stop another building in Farnborough being an eye sore. Will a MacDonalds affect other business? NO if you want a MacDonalds you want one, if you want Fish and Chips you wil have fish and chips, you just have more choice. It may in fact improve business for shops at Farnborough gate as it will reduce traffic in the monumental foul up that is the Farnborough gate car park and encouraging more people to visit . I ve never understood how that car park entrance got planning and then RBC make it even worse by allowing Costa.. madness

Ady618
19/03/2013 at 11:10

I was one of the people who was actually at the protest, I stood there with the FTTD and showed my support for what they wanted to do with a big smile on my face and a bundle of leaflets in my hand. I got to meet a variety of people doing this as at one point I left the protest to wander Farnborough Gate to hand out leaflets. Some people didn't want a leaflet, that's their choice but those that did were largely supportive, they asked what the FTTD wanted to do with the building. Many were encouraging, with positive words and offered their support, these people did not need a business plan to decide they supported the protest. To ask for a business plan and actual financial figures to be posted on a public forum is a ludicrous idea, anyone can see that these things would need to be kept close to the chest and those of us who still support it, get that and no what we need to know. The planning needs to be fought against and won first, so why not let the FTTD get on with that? Or better yet, why not help?

Claire Marshall
15/03/2013 at 17:48

There are two quite different problems here, 1) There has been an acknowledged failure by RBC to protect this historic building, so it should already be protected.

2) Drive Through restaurants should not be permitted at all in a town centre plan. The idea of a strategic plan is to try and get people to come and stay and contribute to the local economy. With a McDonalds drive through customers will drive trough, leave some litter and drive off again. How can this help, a much neglected town to prosper?

Willem

Willem, Farnborough
15/03/2013 at 12:47

DonDraperPhd, if someone signs a petition with the aims clearly on view, then I would confidently assume that person supports the aims of said petition. By signing I'm showing FOTTD that I agree with their aims, and that is all there is to it. I am not party to the small print of the FOTTD business plan, but know there is a qualified business team taking care of it, and it adhers to the aims of the petition.

Louise Punchard
14/03/2013 at 06:50

I don't think anyone is expecting FTTD to disclose their full business plan but I think there is a need to share more than is written on the FAQ. McDonald's doesn't need to do this because everyone knows what a drive-thru is and what goes on there. How different from the old Tumbledown will this proposed community centre be? Is this something that will genuinely benefit my family? or is it just a ruse to reopen your pub?

Also FTTD, you seem to be confused. Just because people have signed your petition and Liked your facebook page it does not mean that you represent them or speak for them in any way. Likewise people do not have to blindly support the community centre plans without evidence of it's viability in their town and the abilities of your members that will make it a success.

DonDraperPhD, London
13/03/2013 at 17:55

For the record, I am NOT Support Tumbledown McDonalds!

I would like to see the TDD returned to its former use, do not like McDonalds, but understand the realism of the situation.

Phooto, Farnborough
13/03/2013 at 17:35

I'm also born, raised, schooled and now raising my own family in Farnborough. Simply, I don't want my children to have McDonalds shoved at them from all angles, at the expense of the last remaining heritage building in our town. The Friends of the Tumbledown have a business plan, and they are right not to risk it's success by releasing the finer details. Investors have the right to not have their finances blurted across local websites. We are working together to bring the Tumbledown back as a community hub within a heritage building, and won't be derailled by having to answer the same questions over and over to the pro - McDonald brigade.

Louise Punchard
13/03/2013 at 13:54

Good one. Accuse someone of being a troll when using their real name for their opinion yet hide behind a modified kids character for your own.

Born, raised and schooled in Farnborough. Work in the town and live locally.

See the TDD twice a day. Been many times before when it was open. It's not anymore and something needs to be done. If someone is prepared to put the money in and use the site then it's a good thing. The fact McDonalds want the place is a good thing. No one else is putting their money where their mouth is. Would there be the same opposition if turned into a bank or a tesco?

Adam Neaves
13/03/2013 at 13:27

Miss Guided:

I agree this should not just be about who is more popular. We do have a lot of information and questions bouncing around and I think your views are probably a good reflection of many people in Farnborough.

People -should- be fed up that the building has been boarded up for so long, but they should also ask themselves how and why this has come about in the first place. This situation has, in my opinion, come about because landowners/developers have been allowed to get away with it so they can profit at the expense of the local popluation.

People have tried to get involved and solve this thoughout the last 5 years to no avail, but discovering the McDonalds plan was the catalyst for one last push to see if heritage can still have a place and do good for Farnborough. I think it is worth the effort and progress like the council reconsidering the status of the local listing is a step in the right direction, even if it comes so woefully late.

Yes, it can fail - either at the planning stage or after that. Personally, I don't think failure would result in the building remaining unused though, and I think the risk of trying is infinitely preferable to just giving up and accepting the will of landowners that have no long term interest in anything local.

Perhaps the owners would start entertaining offers that aren't grossly inflated if McDonalds walk away?

Rob S
13/03/2013 at 11:58

Reading through this thread there seems to be an air of superiority from both sides. Sorry if my questions are boring. I came to this thread to find out more information but seem to have found a popularity war instead. Tired with seeing the building boarded up I am not interested if each group has 5 or 5000 supporters as a resident of this town I would just like to see the best outcome. I would like to see it back in use and would like to see the building retained. It has been in the paper and I decided to find out more maybe it’s hard to see the other point of view when people are passionately involved in their own opinions but it really is not helpful at obtaining support either way. As I said I have read the FAQ page but am still unclear, asking for financial info seemed the most logical step obviously not a detailed plan but a guide to show that this is a very real possibility. Grant funding takes time to apply for and for large sums of money can go through a two tier system some taking longer than the 6 month period they have, hence my asking if any provisional applications had been made. I understand McDonalds will purchase the property providing they get planning permission - if we do not want a McDonalds we must object on valid planning issues, if successful with objections then one of two outcomes will happen, this campaign group then raise all the money and can purchase, renovate and run it for the rest of its life another 300+ years then all is well and good. It would be very short sighted not to ask what happens if the money is not raised what will the owner do then & what will become of the building will the council step in? Or is short sighted planning and not looking at the whole picture why Farnborough is a such a disjointed muddle. Do I want McDonalds not particularly. Do I want a boarded up building absolutely no. A little knowledge is a wonderful thing uninformed people can make the wrong choices. How do we get more information?

Miss Guided, Farnborough
13/03/2013 at 11:13

Can I just warn people not to go back to the name calling that went on yesterday. Threats have been made to FTTD members, the police are involved, and others have been incorrectly implicated. It's all got way out of hand, so play nice like you have today.

Phooto, Farnborough
13/03/2013 at 10:45

This whole thread is an interesting read, from it I have drawn several conclusions. 1 those that are in oppostion to the campaign to save the TDD don't seem to WANT to see clearly the aims of the campaign as it is entirely obvious that it is to save the TDD from becoming a McDonalds and return it to it's postion as a pub and music venue and also to use it a community asset. 2. For some reason the same opponents are backing the permonent demolition of an historic building in favour of a 'global symbol of obesity and greed' 3. A campaign has started to support McDonalds, basically claiming employment and removal an eyesore. There is no evidence of this being the case and other businesses will almost certainly suffer. Taking the income away from local independent takeaways and channelling the same cash into the bulging wallets of the American fatcats. And what a lovely sight those golden arches will be with the backdrop of the clockhouse and abbey. 4. These same people want to shut the campaign down when actually given the choice, they mostly say they would rather have the TDD as a functioning and profitable community venture, but don't think the campaign can win, so forget it..... That's crazy , there is only going to be one chance to save it...NOW. When it's gone it will be gone forever.

Captain Splat, Farnborough
13/03/2013 at 10:14

This is just going round in circles and getting boring. Organisations that aren't public bodies and subject to FOI don't have to provide information simply because people who are ashamed/afraid to use their real identity ask for it on websites. Perhaps we should ask for those, apparently, doing McDonald's work for them to provide full details of their identity and make their bank accounts available so that it can be proven they're not being paid.

County Councillor John Wall - Farnborough South Division (@CllrJohnWall), Farnborough, Hampshire
13/03/2013 at 09:04

It’s nice to see a return to civil communication; I don’t think there is any malice involved from people posing the questions. In fact, most would be overjoyed if the TDD was somehow rescued. People are feeling persecuted and getting hung up on details like the business plan (which was just an example of something that was crucially missing). Very simply, if I was going to fund a project, I would want to know the value of the investment, the timeframe to recover the investment as a minimum. If for example MacDonalds are offering £3M for the structure, they may have budgeted another £1M to renovate. They will want to recover this over a period of 3 to 5 years. They will need to clear £66,000 pre tax profit a month minimum. I don’t know anything of MD business model for a site like this but I would suggest that will take some doing. Let’s imagine the friends are given the site for half the price and they do all of the renovation themselves for free. It must be obvious to anyone that they need to find £25,000 a month from somewhere. The question that is being asked is WHERE ??

Hector
13/03/2013 at 08:57

I do not have the details, but you are welcome to ask the question and it is something that could go in the FAQ.

I do know that great care has been taken with accountability and financial control. The modest fundraising (deliberately so at the moment, I believe) has not been through public donations and they are handled appropriately.

I do find it odd that you bring subjects like this up in public forums when you can, and indeed are in direct contact with the campaign to ask them and make suggestions.

Also, you must recognise that Campaign members also have limited time to give, and a barrage of questions is time consuming when so much focus is on the impending planning battle. If you really do sympathise with the goal, widespread posting of messages that can confuse the fundamental issues i.e attempting to stop the destruction of a landmark seems at odds with that.